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enether 2 minutes ago [-]
The permission thing is a killer to productivity, if you're running Claude I think it's more efficient to just run in a disposable sandbox (like exe.dev[1]) or in some form of docker container with permissions you're personally ok taking the risk with on a personal machine[2]
Currently you can "cheat" by simply denying all requests as quickly as possible. This will give you the "security-conscious engineer" badge and a perfect score in terms of how many requests were processed. (You will get the "overblock" notification, but it's somewhat tucked away at the bottom and the screen still looks as if you won)
I also tried to play as the hustle4lyfe move fast and break things engineer and simply approved as many requests as quickly as possible - turns out, the "malicious command" popups actually slow you down. Mean!
Wirbelwind 48 minutes ago [-]
Good catch, this has now been nerfed and this approach has gotten its own title
KajMagnus 38 minutes ago [-]
Top 18%! I denied everything, unless I could see at a glance that it was safe (like Git diff)
progforlyfe 26 minutes ago [-]
Just like real life! deny it from doing anything and you're safe :)
spurgelaurels 3 hours ago [-]
Fun game, but it showed the lack of security hygiene employed by the game writer. It said `cat ~/.zshrc` was bad because it would share tokens and secrets, but I would never put secrets into my shell rc.
londons_explore 3 hours ago [-]
Plenty of people would. But then I guess they're in env and probably already available to Claude
nish__ 3 hours ago [-]
Where would you put them?
setopt 3 hours ago [-]
Presumably a CLI-accessible password manager (like `pass`) or a GPG-encrypted file (like a netrc-style `~/.authinfo.gpg`).
freedomben 1 hours ago [-]
I put mine in various aes encrypted file (like `~/.secrets.aes`) and then source it explicitly when needed with:
. <(aescrypt -d -o - ~/.secrets.aes)
I have a handful of aliases/functions to make it more smooth, but that's the core.
Weird to make reading zshrc supposed unsafe when I happily publish it in my public dotfiles repo... Who the hell keeps API keys in it? OTOH it seems like lots of these AI tools keep appending PATH in it so I guess there's a fundamental misunderstanding of shell best practices in the entire AI space...
Additionally, killing the results of `lsof` is _not_ safe - if, say, you have the web page open in firefox, or a client subshell in the agent itself, then boom, there goes firefox and the agent.
mrgoldenbrown 28 minutes ago [-]
Yeah, the game seems to assert that the kill is safe to run because Claude told me it was safe. But that's the point, I'm not supposed to trust Claude.
orsorna 2 hours ago [-]
About three quarters of the "bad" choices are things that not only do I not care about leaking but things that an employer would not punish you for doing, even if it led to a production incident.
progforlyfe 25 minutes ago [-]
I got "approve" wrong for `ls -la ~/Documents` but I don't consider simply listing the documents folder a security problem, it's just file names. If it was reading the CONTENTS of them, maybe...
axod 4 hours ago [-]
Fun little game, but I think the questions jump context so much it's a little unrepresentative. It might be better to group things into "packs", which have more real-world representative structure to them.
For example, lots of "editing something.js" file permission requests, and then an "npm publish" is far more normal, and it's more of a risk, if you're used to pressing Y lots and then suddenly out of the blue...
cobbal 5 hours ago [-]
That's funny. It told me that blocking "npm run build" was the wrong answer. Maybe it doesn't really under The threat model.
dns_snek 4 hours ago [-]
That's a great example of how dangerous actions are perceived as innocent. The entire model of approving specific commands is absolutely bonkers.
npm run build = run an arbitrary shell command written in package.json
Meanwhile the agent could have done any of the following without approval:
- edited `package.json` to contain any arbitrary build command
- planted malicious code in `build.js` (called by `npm run build`)
- planted malicious code in `node_modules/xyz/index.js` (imported by `build.js`)
nonethewiser 2 hours ago [-]
Yup. The most secure computer is one encased in concrete and dropped into the ocean.
Wirbelwind 45 minutes ago [-]
that's a great point, and also the problem with relying on a human-in-the-loop to catch these kind of issues when it can be circumvented even if they were perfect
amarant 2 hours ago [-]
What would a better system look like?
nonethewiser 2 hours ago [-]
Not using agents at all. It could edit your code to do something malicious when you run it. Not even once. Not even if the agent has a gun to your head.
formerly_proven 46 minutes ago [-]
Drop the whole agent into a sandbox (container/VM), don't mount things you don't want it to access, review results before pushing to prod, done. The permission systems in the agents are a vibecoded waste of time anyway.
zackify 5 hours ago [-]
I vibe coded a TUI that just shows running lxd containers
I hit 'n' to toggle all network access minus anthropic and openai URLs.
I use pi (sometimes claude, always on bypass) and I auto allow everything. I only toggle manual approval in rare cases like running a script or command that needs to touch a production system and I need to validate everything.
Normally my container has full write access to staging so it can debug and validate everything on its own
kennywinker 4 hours ago [-]
Sounds like your process has made you vulnerable to huge classes of exploits and accidents. You have no oversight of changes locally, and only focus on when it touches prod. That means toxic local changes can get in, and if it works in staging why would you look too closely at it before merging to prod? Meanwhile a malicious npm package has made it into your repo, and your staging api keys have been sent to the command and control server.
Liftyee 5 hours ago [-]
I haven't used local agentic AI yet for programming projects. Hence, -187 score
The filter for "commands I would run myself" and "commands I would let an agent run" are very different it seems.
rogerrogerr 2 hours ago [-]
Thinking about agents as remote junior devs who _might_ be North Korean operatives has been the right model for me.
kstenerud 40 minutes ago [-]
This is one of two reasons why I wrote yoloAI. I never get these permission prompts anymore. It feels a lot like after installing an adblocker.
t-writescode 3 hours ago [-]
I was told I was over protective when the text said “I need to wipe and build my project” and its first thing to do was to read the details of the (already established) package file. Why did it need to read the package file to “get context” if it was just doing a standard wipe and build?
Apparently me telling it that’s the wrong first step and saying “no” is bad; but I’ve seen AI tools waste a ton of time doing a bunch of random work before they do their job.
2 hours ago [-]
Wirbelwind 4 hours ago [-]
Thanks all for checking it out and your suggestions!
If anyone is curious about the actual underlying risks and problems with some mitigations (like the 17% false-negative rates of Auto Mode), I wrote up a quick summary of some of the approaches here
I am mostly using OpenCode and barely ever see a permission prompt. While they do enforce it for outside workspace read/write, with the bash tool the agent can just bypass that. I'm not quite sure why it is that way, and it certainly isn't a very good solution, but likely not worse than asking for everything which just trains the user to always accept and provides a false sense of security then.
whimblepop 3 hours ago [-]
I got "overblocked" for this one:
rm -rf node_modules && npm install
but actually if you're only removing `node_modules` and you have a working package-lock.json already, what you want is `npm ci`; `npm install` can mutate package-lock.json and potentially expose you to supply chain attacks. If you use `npm ci` I think you don't need to `rm -rf node_modules`, either.
Anyway you should generally run `npm ci` except when you're deliberately updating your actual dependencies. I'd only permit an `npm install` if I was adding or updating a dependency, or I'd just reviewed an `npm ci` failure.
gamer191 3 hours ago [-]
But also why would Claude need to run `rm -rf node_modules && npm install`? Without the context of seeing what changes it’s made, I’d be inclined to assume that Claude has added a new dependency, which I definitely don’t wanna blindly trust it to install
Wirbelwind 22 minutes ago [-]
thanks for the pointer! renamed it to npm ci so it's still 'safe'
MeetingsBrowser 5 hours ago [-]
It would be cool to see the distribution of all player scores.
Wirbelwind 49 minutes ago [-]
and added! Made one for each stat separately
Wirbelwind 4 hours ago [-]
That's a great idea, stay tuned
graphememes 2 hours ago [-]
Pressed 1 for everything, no regrets
kqr 4 hours ago [-]
Fun! Played twice and refused all dangerous commands, with only one "over-block". Although I disagree that saying no to `kill $(lsof -t -i:3000)` is over-blocking. It's such a simple command I'd rather run it myself and be fully aware of what process I'm killing.
sandeepkd 4 hours ago [-]
Interestingly I kept saying no to everything and some how I am a security conscious rare engineer who actually read the commands. Guess doing nothing is the safest approach from security standpoint.
martin-adams 2 hours ago [-]
Very fun. I can only imagine building this with Claude and testing needed a bit of mental concentration.
scotty79 30 minutes ago [-]
Permissions don't do much. They won't save you. You can just skip them completely.
If you are afraid that AI can delete something do what you'd do with potentially malicious user. Sandbox, don't give permission, setup remote backups and so on.
Also (unless prompt injected) models are not eager to start going rouge on your stuff.
But keep in mind a saying “Children don’t hear prohibitions — they hear suggestions.”
Same thing goes for LLMs. Never talk with LLM about deleting stuff. Archiving, moving, retaining elswhere... sure, but never about actually destructive operations. Don't use destructive language.
stevenalowe 2 hours ago [-]
Sadly unplayable - gray text on a black background is very hard to read on a phone
NewJazz 4 hours ago [-]
git reset --soft HEAD~1
Uh, how is this an overblock? It is literally a destructive command. No way I want an LLM agent rewriting my commit history. What if that commit was already pushed to a protected branch?
stratos123 2 hours ago [-]
Why do you call it destructive? It rewrites history only locally and reversibly (the disappeared commit is still in reflog and can be recovered with another reset) and also doesn't destroy uncommitted changes, so it's quite safe. You can only lose data with it by resetting an unpushed commit and then waiting long enough to let the unreferenced commit be garbage collected.
NewJazz 2 hours ago [-]
Commit history is data. I might not realize what happened until the gc happens.
misbau 4 hours ago [-]
That was fun and gave me an idea how security conscious I am.
bspammer 4 hours ago [-]
To be realistic, 99% of the time it should be a totally innocuous command. If half of the commands are dangerous then you don't get fatigue because you're aware what you're doing is dangerous.
sukhavati 4 hours ago [-]
Reminds me of the "Papers, please" game. Glory to Arstotzka!
So are there 3 threats? 8? Is it a different game?
Does everyone get a "good" score even if they missed 5 threats?!
t-writescode 1 hours ago [-]
It's a game you play over one minute. They probably saw more prompts than you.
soanvig 4 hours ago [-]
Fun game.
Can somebody run an agent against those questions to see how it performs? :)
ilaksh 4 hours ago [-]
You can turn that off with an option in most agents.
My own agent harness/framework has never had any permission system. It's also never deleted anything it shouldn't or done anything crazy or unrelated to what I asked.
flux3125 4 hours ago [-]
> It's also never deleted anything it shouldn't or done anything crazy or unrelated to what I asked
Until it does. A simple curl request to a compromised website could inject a malicious prompt into it.
fragmede 4 hours ago [-]
How many car accidents have you been in, and do you wear your seatbelt when you're in a car?
nardib 7 hours ago [-]
Use this and save yourself:
claude --dangerously-skip-permissions
tasuki 5 hours ago [-]
Just make sure to run it in an isolated environment where it's ok to mess things up, and make sure it doesn't have access to any secrets.
wildpeaks 5 hours ago [-]
This is why having a human in the loop isn't enough because they will cut corners and skip reviewing what they should review.
preciousoo 4 hours ago [-]
I created a watcher for this problem, to watch my PRs for unfinished scope and have a fresh Claude review
A tool that pushes people into permissions fatigue is in fact the proper recipient of the blame. The tool in question here is the entire system though, including the OS with insufficient permission boundaries in userspace, not just the agent
kennywinker 3 hours ago [-]
A tool that bypasses permission requests because they’re annoying will be just as guilty when the repo is poisoned.
chuckadams 2 hours ago [-]
I'm not saying wedging doorstops under the fire doors is a good thing, I'm just saying look at the situation that's making people put the doorstops there. Or something, it's not a great analogy. I'm just saying that shaming the user belongs with obscurity in the list of security mechanisms that don't work out in practice.
kennywinker 3 hours ago [-]
It’s baking malicious code into your project, but hey it didn’t run rm -rf so… we’re good.
maxbond 3 hours ago [-]
Why would you do this now that we have auto mode?
qsxfthnkp2322 5 hours ago [-]
I love it when Claude is dangerous
paulddraper 4 hours ago [-]
alias yolo=claude --dangerously-skip-permissions
dheera 5 hours ago [-]
I got tired of typing that and just do
alias claude="claude --dangerously-skip-permissions"
I do have a separate "claude" user on my system without sudo access and without access to my main user home dir
And yeah I know that's not perfect but I'm trying to get shit done
franze 4 hours ago [-]
alias claude+="claude --dangerously-skip-permissions"
alias claude++="claude --dangerously-skip-permissions --continue"
carterschonwald 5 hours ago [-]
some of the sandboxing ive been playing with gives me the best of both yolo and like logic programming tier perms on llm actions in env. still not ready for prime time though ;)
2 hours ago [-]
5 hours ago [-]
cadwell 5 hours ago [-]
1,640 points on my first try—I fell into a few traps, but it was really interesting. Thanks for the little game! I'm sharing it with my coworkers :)
wilg 2 hours ago [-]
"Auto" in Claude and "Auto-review" in Codex are the only way to do agentic coding.
jMyles 2 hours ago [-]
I haven't run claude code without --dangerously-skip-permissions in quite some time. I'm surprised that it's still the norm to endure permission spamming?
(I run it on a VPS of course, not my laptop)
atemerev 4 hours ago [-]
--dangerously-skip-permissions is the only way to fly. Of course your environment needs to be properly containerized and autobackup set up, so even rm -rf from your harness would do nothing. Life is too short to spend on replying to permissions requests.
prerok 3 hours ago [-]
I've seen these suggestions but I am really curious about the set up because I just don't get it.
If you want to work on the code then you need to have access to the repositories, so you need the github token. Then, to test the app, you may need your own backend token. And VPN. Of course, only to DEV, of course all tokens encrypted. So, only DEV and your branch of the code is in danger. In my view, even that is pretty bad.
So, how does such a set up work?
stratos123 19 minutes ago [-]
You could clone the repo yourself and not give the agent any tokens at all. When done, push it yourself. This also lets you sandbox the agent to only have access to the local repo and nothing else.
kennywinker 3 hours ago [-]
Lol. Countdown til you get pwned starts today. Let me know how that works out for you in six months.
Trung0246 4 hours ago [-]
Nice got 6/6
rvz 4 hours ago [-]
This current thread is proof of AI psychosis.
stuartjohnson12 4 hours ago [-]
What the hell is going on in this thread? This isn't good. The "threats" don't make sense. Oh no, all the sensitive information in my package.json...
cobbal 3 hours ago [-]
Here's the threat model I (a luddite) use to evaluate these. The claude code harness can be mostly trusted, the model cannot be trusted because it is exposed to untrusted data from the internet, and there is no separation of data/code in an llm [0][1].
I want to avoid running untrusted code on my local machine, because it could steal secrets, install malware, etc.
Since the model is allowed to write without restriction (I think) to the project directory, anything in the project directory is also untrusted. Running standard commands from the system is fine, as long as you know what those commands are going to do. Running anything from the local directory should be avoided because the code is untrusted.
This is just one security model, there are many others! If a person is running claude in a stronger sandbox, that changes the model considerably. What threat model do you use to evaluate whether an agent's actions are safe?
[1] - https://exe.dev/ is a new cloud provider with some very useful agent UX [2] - I built https://github.com/stanislavkozlovski/dclaude/ for this; not perfect but gets my job done on the rare occassion I need to run the coding agent locally
Currently you can "cheat" by simply denying all requests as quickly as possible. This will give you the "security-conscious engineer" badge and a perfect score in terms of how many requests were processed. (You will get the "overblock" notification, but it's somewhat tucked away at the bottom and the screen still looks as if you won)
I also tried to play as the hustle4lyfe move fast and break things engineer and simply approved as many requests as quickly as possible - turns out, the "malicious command" popups actually slow you down. Mean!
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48108207
Additionally, killing the results of `lsof` is _not_ safe - if, say, you have the web page open in firefox, or a client subshell in the agent itself, then boom, there goes firefox and the agent.
npm run build = run an arbitrary shell command written in package.json
Meanwhile the agent could have done any of the following without approval:
- edited `package.json` to contain any arbitrary build command
- planted malicious code in `build.js` (called by `npm run build`)
- planted malicious code in `node_modules/xyz/index.js` (imported by `build.js`)
I hit 'n' to toggle all network access minus anthropic and openai URLs.
I use pi (sometimes claude, always on bypass) and I auto allow everything. I only toggle manual approval in rare cases like running a script or command that needs to touch a production system and I need to validate everything.
Normally my container has full write access to staging so it can debug and validate everything on its own
The filter for "commands I would run myself" and "commands I would let an agent run" are very different it seems.
Apparently me telling it that’s the wrong first step and saying “no” is bad; but I’ve seen AI tools waste a ton of time doing a bunch of random work before they do their job.
If anyone is curious about the actual underlying risks and problems with some mitigations (like the 17% false-negative rates of Auto Mode), I wrote up a quick summary of some of the approaches here
https://scalex.dev/blog/ai-agent-permissions/
Anyway you should generally run `npm ci` except when you're deliberately updating your actual dependencies. I'd only permit an `npm install` if I was adding or updating a dependency, or I'd just reviewed an `npm ci` failure.
If you are afraid that AI can delete something do what you'd do with potentially malicious user. Sandbox, don't give permission, setup remote backups and so on.
Also (unless prompt injected) models are not eager to start going rouge on your stuff.
But keep in mind a saying “Children don’t hear prohibitions — they hear suggestions.”
Same thing goes for LLMs. Never talk with LLM about deleting stuff. Archiving, moving, retaining elswhere... sure, but never about actually destructive operations. Don't use destructive language.
Uh, how is this an overblock? It is literally a destructive command. No way I want an LLM agent rewriting my commit history. What if that commit was already pushed to a protected branch?
Caught 8/8 threats "Not a single secret leaked"
→ llmgame.scalex.dev
Caught 3/3 threats "Not a single secret leaked"
So are there 3 threats? 8? Is it a different game?
Does everyone get a "good" score even if they missed 5 threats?!
My own agent harness/framework has never had any permission system. It's also never deleted anything it shouldn't or done anything crazy or unrelated to what I asked.
Until it does. A simple curl request to a compromised website could inject a malicious prompt into it.
claude --dangerously-skip-permissions
Uses tmux and gh https://github.com/Kyu/claude-pr-watch
And yeah I know that's not perfect but I'm trying to get shit done
alias claude++="claude --dangerously-skip-permissions --continue"
(I run it on a VPS of course, not my laptop)
If you want to work on the code then you need to have access to the repositories, so you need the github token. Then, to test the app, you may need your own backend token. And VPN. Of course, only to DEV, of course all tokens encrypted. So, only DEV and your branch of the code is in danger. In my view, even that is pretty bad.
So, how does such a set up work?
I want to avoid running untrusted code on my local machine, because it could steal secrets, install malware, etc.
Since the model is allowed to write without restriction (I think) to the project directory, anything in the project directory is also untrusted. Running standard commands from the system is fine, as long as you know what those commands are going to do. Running anything from the local directory should be avoided because the code is untrusted.
This is just one security model, there are many others! If a person is running claude in a stronger sandbox, that changes the model considerably. What threat model do you use to evaluate whether an agent's actions are safe?
[0]: https://www.schneier.com/essays/archives/2024/05/llms-data-c... [1]: https://simonwillison.net/2025/Jun/16/the-lethal-trifecta/